Recently I conducted an interview with a woman pursuing charges on a retired police officer. The interview was over an hour long. Here is a summary of the interview. The following conversation was conducted at a McDonald’s on Roosevelt and Kedzie.
Cordell Longstreath- Interviewer- CL
Trina “Kim Townsend-Interviewee-TT
Crista Noel-Women’s All Points Bulletin-CN
Cl-Thank everybody for meeting me here on the west side of Chicago.I want to jump right into it. My first impression of hearing about you and your story was at the February 28th CPD monthly board meeting. When I went there I didn’t know what to expect, but the first thing that happened was the picture incident; you brought pictures from during or before when the rape was happening when you were younger. What was the response by the board after the meeting? Were you able to let them hear your side of the story after that incident?
TT- You mean at that particular time? After the meeting they had me go get the picture and they were so ecstatic, cause some of the pictures were during that time, and I wanted them to see the transformation from a young teenager to grown adult women.
CL- Are you okay with sharing those pictures.
Cl-Thanks. We can even push that idea, cause obviously, this happened when you were a teen.
TT-Nah, correction. I changed the age the next meeting after. I’m not putting an age limit due to all the trauma I been through. I was just a teenager.
CL-When that initially happened you were going to speak to authorities to let them know about other stuff. With all this happening were you able to seek justice with that?
TT- No. Originally, that is why I had went to Glover the day that I flagged him down. I was going to tell him and he made me believe that he was taking me to see his sergeant. And that’s how he was able to coerce me to get in the car.
CL-You were out in the South Kolin neighborhood. Do you go over around there for anything?
TT -well the neighborhood that I grew up in where he contacted me was in the LaClair Court neighborhoods I used to live on 45th in Laport 4504 Laport, second house off the corner. SO the area he took me in was 4500 S Kolin. I don’t go over there, the first time I went over there was with Charles Preston. The first reporter from the Defender that was the first time being over there in almost 30 something years. the old neighborhood, yes, I still go out there from time to time. Still got friends there, family.
CL- Is it a family home?
TT- Yes its a family. I come from a let’s just say I grew up middle class. Both my parents were on their jobs 50 years.
CL- I remember reading that you were interested in becoming a cop. You didn’t end up becoming a cop, but you still got into social work. you did get into social work a similar field in helping others. What kind of social work did you do?
TT- I’m a case manager. I was certified with IODoctor, Illinois Alcohol, and other drug abuse. My certification expired due to health issues. I haven’t been working the field since 2015. But I’m still a case manager, I can go back to it any time.
CL- After looking up everything on you I kind of got what the public narrative, or at least what an outsider would see if they went through the internet as a news source. I’m gonna go through the sequence of event in a broader theme covering time and I will mention some dates. Afterward, I just want to ask you was there any pertinent things missing that you want to get out.
5:00-CL- Back in the ’80s, in your teens, the initial abuse and the abuse by the officer happened.
You had to deal with PTSD, homelessness, addiction and raising kids. You did raise kids and become a social worker. Throughout that time you met an officer who validated your story about that. After that, your daughter encouraged you to reach out to people. then the Oprah speech happened. Around that time you were already reaching out to news outlets as well. With the Oprah speech and you reaching out the official story online; on January 24th multiple outlets get your story.That’s where Charles Preston did a video with you on South Kolin. In Jan 28th the first board meeting, at least with you on record attending, that is where your public statement is recorded at. February the 8th the Tribune and WTTW publish your piece. That was a few of the bigger outlets getting your story out. Feb 15th Truthout did an article on you, I’ll send all the links to yall. February 28 was the second board meeting. I actually did a Documenter Assignment with quotes that connected with everything I know. I’ll send links if you haven’t read it.
VerySmartbrothas actually did an article.
CN- THe ROOT?
CL- Yea, they did an article. As you know, with Truthout and Verysmartbrothas (the root) being very large platforms, has there been any other media outlets or organizations that you have reached out to you.
TT-No and let me make the correction: the first board meeting, you said January 28th, it was January 18th. That was the day I originally came out with my story. At the first board meeting. Noone else has really reached out to me as of yet. You mostly have everything down to the T, however, after the assault, I became homeless, got on drugs and everything (and I’m not a social worker, I’m a case manager) however my certification has expired. If I decide to go back into it I could start from where I left off. In between that time, there was the battling, which at that time I didn’t know that I had PTSD anyway, but the battling of the events that happened. That was the reason why I got on drugs in the first place. I was really trying to blow him out my mind. I was trying to forget about.
8:26-CL- There were a lot of moments where I assume you, I wouldn’t want to say got over the trauma, but got from underneath the water. Not just in terms of pursuing justice, but in terms of your own life. Dealing with PTSD was there a defining moment to, at least, get control over your life.
TT- Yea. My son, February 19th of 2001 I accidentally rolled over on my son and killed him. So that was the trying time in my life where I said I got to get it together. I always been a strong individual and a fighter and had no one to depend on but myself and my faith in God. SO that was the trying time, right there, that was like enough is enough. When that time the officer who was a sergeant befriended me and helped me do that time and without him…and I cannot remember that man’s name. They could find out that man’s name if they pulled my reports, cause he had to do the report on me or whatever since he had to arrest me. That was the time that I was like “wow”; he cuffed me under his wing like i was his daughter. He helped me that day and I will never forget that and I really wish I could see him again.
CL- Could you describe some of the ways he helped you?
TT-When your baby died they don’t let you in the ambulance. I was in my apartment hid and I was scared to go to the hospital because I knew I had a warrant for violation of probation from a while ago. I just didn’t want to go back to jail anymore, so when they wouldn’t let me go they told me to wait, wait for my mother, I knew what time it was they were investigating. When he kept coming back to the apartment, I was hid in the bathroom shower. he kicked the door open. He kept hitting me, he hit me on the head with a piece of newspaper like I was his kid. That was the time where I just knew that I learned that not all police officer were not all bad. That man helped me he did. He really did. He was like, “why you not at the hospital with your son when he is fighting for his life?”, and I was like, ” I got a warrant!”, I was crying. He was like “WHAT! You got a warrant! is that why you in here scared?”, I was like, “yea I don’t wanna go back to jail”. But he got them to let me before my son died, he got to the hospital cause they was just trying to handcuff me and take me out of there and he was like, “No. Let her hold her child”. I think I had him for about a hour and a half after he died. There’s just a lot of times I had in my life where different situations that I went through my life when I met different officers. An officer is an officer, I don’t care if it’s a cook county sheriff or regular police officer, but it is those that I’m against that do not honor their badge. You have some that’s good and some that’s bad. And the ones that bad, you gotta get em up out of here. Sexual assault is… you’ll be surprised people just don’t know. Even myself, I thought I was okay. I had counseling a little bit. Dip in and dip out. But I need some serious counseling. I get some serious issues going on that’s from this. I could be doing anything and I’m just… I could be ironing my clothes and a thought come to my mind now I just start crying walking around the house talking to myself. You know it’s just hard. I can’t speak for other people or other women who have done with what I been through. If I had to speak up for everybody it’s hard. PTSD is nothing to play with. You never know what a person is going through or how a situation has affected one. You might think that you are okay and five-ten years from now it hits you. You don’t get over that. I thought I was over it but I’m not.
CL- Was that officer the officer that validated your story?
TT-No. The officer that, he didn’t validate my story. What he did is, he let me know that it is still going on. That it was possibly going on. I don’t know if they located him.
CN-They know where he is!
TT-They know where he is.
CL- Officer Walker?*[This is where the Glover-Walker confusion lies]
TT- HIs name is Gary.
CL- I was noticing they haven’t been mentioning his name. I wanted to ask if that was something, but I know in your public statement you stated it.
TT- I don’t care if you mention his name. Can we mention his name?
14:19-CN- You spoke with a guy named Gary.
TT-Gary that worked for Lawdawg security.
CN- And that’s a fact jack.
TT- Show is… Gary is the officer who worked for LawDawg Security. It’s out south.
CN-Lawdawg security and investigation. It’s on 111th street. Should roll by there, you know what I’m saying. Just drive up on em.
TT-They probably got rid of Gary by now.
CN- They ain’t got rid of Gary. I don’t think they roll like that.
CL- How did you end up meeting him?
TT-I work part-time security and he’s one of the, when we working in rough neighborhoods, they hire them, also, and they carry guns and we’re unarmed, well I am. He was one of the officers that was on that morning. And just talking to him, I’m just a talkative person, I was like “hey, you knew, what district you retired from?”, when he said the 8th district do you know how many years the 8th district rang in my mind. Every time I met somebody from the 8th district, I was like “you know this officer? you know this officer?”. So I asked him, I said: “do you know Kevin Glover?”. And when I said Kevin Glover, this was his exact words; “OOO boy! Do I know the bastard!”, that’s what he said he said, “I know the bastard. I was his partner for”, I couldn’t remember for 2-3 years something like and he said that he requested for him to not be his partner. And when he said that my body clinched on the inside, I was like Lord have mercy. I just didn’t want to hear what that man was about to tell me. So me being me, I looked in his face and I was like, “O wow! Why you request, why didn’t want to be his partner? What was he out there doing?”, you know I was trying to get him to talk. He said, “Shid, he used to leave me in the car in leave me in the alley and doing god knows what with these girls. And have sex with these girls and be up in their apartment” he was just running his mouth, so I was looking at him like…
And he turned to me and said, “Hi Kim! How you know about the bastard Kim. You related to him?”
And I was like, “Nah, I’m not related to him I’m just one of them girls he raped back in the days.” When I said that the man faced turned red. His faced done turned red like, aww shit I done said the wrong thing.
That’s the expression that he looked. And after that, after an hour or so, hour and a half, somebody was coming to relieve him. I only had that one conversation with him for 15 minutes and that was it.
CL- Has he been contacted since you been pursuing this case?
TT-I’m quite sure he has.
CL-Not from your side of things?
TT-No. Not from me. I’m quite sure they contacted him.
CN- They know where he is.
CL- Is the security firm ran through Lawdawg.
TT- Everyone on there is either a retired police officer or still active duty.
CN- The one who runs it is active.
TT- Oh, I didn’t know that. There was a couple of em that was still active.
CN- Russell Wilmingham Jr, who oversees the daily business, is a current member of the law enforcement and has been over 13 years. He’s Marine. Has a Master’s degree in psychology.Experienced active and retired police officers as well as experts in many different fields of security and investigation, so they do have active police officers.
TT-There were a couple police officers who used to work with me.
CN- He’s active and he’s running his own business.
CL- Of all the quotes I thought stood out was you saying “my life starts now”.People throughout the world deal with trauma, sexual trauma. What has this allowed you to start in your that you haven’t been able to start before?
TT- It enabled me when I say my life starts now… I haven’t had rest in over 34years. All ever thought about was Kevin Glover, Kevin Glover, Kevin Glover. It’s like that named pinged off my brain. So my life starts now, meaning now I can finally live I can stop looking over my shoulder. wondering if I’m ever gonna run into this man. What would I do if I see him? I’m a mother and I drove my kids crazy. My youngest daughter, I really…. you know I’m so overprotective. they say I get on their nerve. I nag them. I’m so overprotective. I’m overprotective of my friends, my sister, my half sister and they say I’m just driving them crazy. Because I be so nervous and scared, and you know I can finally breathe. there has always been a weight on my shoulders. Ever since January 18th of 2018, when I came out with that story, cause I never thought anybody would believe me first of all. And to just know that a few people believed my story… that was heartfelt, you know. Either I want to do a nonprofit or for profit to help the children… it’s a lot of people that’s been molested and raped who don’t have anyone to go to and to turn to. If I would of had someone to turn to back then it would of never went as far as it did. I couldn’t turn to my mother cause she was being abused herself. My mother couldn’t get outside of what she was going through to notice something was going on with me. I think that is important for children to have a person to go to a little family breakfast spot, a little game ice cream parlor for the kids. Buy me a 16 passenger van and in the summer time take the kids to Great America, get them out the neighborhood. I don’t know what I could do, but I know my faith and I wasn’t born to go through everything I went through, see I’ve been going through stuff since the age of 5, something gots to give. Something gots to breakthrough for me. This is just… motivated me. I’ve had people call me and say you motivated me and I had people come up to me in the store, Walmart, “ain’t you the lady that was on the”- and I was like “yea”. “Wow thank you so much cause you helped me”, a lot of people tell that, strangers. If I get one person to come forward and tell they side and tell they story… that’s a lot.
CL- Are their other organizations that helped to get your story out, to find justice?
TT-No, just Women All Points Bulletin. That’s all I reached out to right now. The Alliance, as well, they’re always there supporting, they have meetings, they been planning this march.
CN- Chicago Alliance Against Racist and Political Repression. One of our go to organizers. They helped with Rekia too.
CL-Has there been any type of antagonism coming from the police or the city?
TT-O yea. I get stopped I get pulled over. Just this Sunday I had to call the police on my neighbor’s boyfriend. At first, the police was all willing to help and they were listening until they realized who I was. When I said my name they like, hesitated, and tried to make it seem like I was overreacting to the situation. “Wow, did he really threaten you?”, “What does destroy mean?”, what the hell you think destroy mean?! If somebody says that they are going to destroy you, and then you turn around and say, “I bet not see your daughter come out that door cause I’m going to destroy her!”, what would you think? And I had to realize, cause they kept asking me for my address my phone number, that was kind of strange to me. Every officer was writing down my phone number and my address and my name. Every officer, it was about ten officer and everyone had their pad out writing down my name, and I was like wow. I ran into a couple of them. At the event on February 28th, did you see the officer in the white shirt grab the bag out my hand?
CL- I didn’t see when she did it but I saw the aftermath?Was that at the beginning?
TT-It was soon as I walked through the door.A minute after I walked in. We was trying to take the pictures up there and she could of handled it a better way, been more professional. IF I wasn’t allowed to have the pictures they should of told me that when I came through the metal detectors. That’s the first time ever in my life. I’ve come encounters with the police because I have a past, but I have never been disrespected (besides Glover). I have always been respected, never ran into a problem. that was the first time ever and I’m 50 years old. When you get to be my age and gone through what I’ve gone through, you learn how to be humble and just look at people and shake your head and say, “ooh, I’ll pray for you”. You have to the world will drive you crazy if you didn’t. This is just the beginning, but the only thing I have to do is fly right and do what I’m supposed to do. As I told my kids, there is nothing to be scared or afraid of. Just close your mouth, cooperate, and just pray for a good outcome for the situation.
CL-How would you define the #metoo movement and the other groups part of this movement?
TT- The #metoo movement is people who had been sexually assaulted on the job. I went through that myself for 5 straight years. I was working at a McDonald’s, 730 N Michigan, and I was being continuously raped there by one of the same guys that raped me from before Glover started. So, we started #CopsToo and #PoliceToo, that’s what we represent. It’s a few of them, newspapers, that are mentioning that. Charles Preston kicked it off. I try to always let everybody know that it is #CopsToo# PoliceToo #TheyKnow and #ItNeverHappened.
CL-This is to focus on cops. When you say they know it means the system knows.
TT- Cops, police, whatever, all of em rape.
CN- You were there when they said the IACP had a report back in 2007 that was supported by a grant that was from the author’s of violence against women, which is from the Department of Justice. So, they know.
CL- It reminds me of Wal-Mart having money for when people steal. So they have insurance for that.
CN- You call it pilfering. Certain stores stuff would be cheaper and the higher price was based on the fact that stuff was stole out the store. So it is covered through the higher price. A little bit different than that, we know that they absolutely know and they know that it is endemic. It’s so bad, but they still call it misconduct. And it’s like really? Okay, that’s misconduct. Misconduct is when you, like, say something stupid. Or stop somebody for a stupid reason. WHich really qualifies it as illegal and violating constitutional law. They like calling everything, their narratives are always their own. Like excessive force. You ever experienced excessive force on a daily basis?
CL-Force is usually excessive.
CN- They call it fatal excessive force. And that’s murder to us, but for them, it is fatal excessive force. They have police with sexual misconduct is assault and abuse to us, but it is misconduct to them. they have all these ways of hiding their illegal activities. For the special narratives that are only theirs to have.
CL- So there is the legal terminology and the internal police talk.
CN-Murder or fatal excessive force, which doesn’t sound like murder does it?
CL-No It doesn’t. This reminds me where 36 states have a law where officers are still allowed to engage in sexual activity with someone in custody.
CN- Well it’s 34 with New York just cutting it. And New York only said they cannot have it. It isn’t explicitly stated in the law that they can’t use the excuse that it is consensual. So 36, 35 states didn’t have it explicitly stated that If I had you in my custody and I have sex with you I can say ” Oh, it was consensual”. New York just passed it (to change it) that started in 2017 and Cuomo just signed the bill, but it still allows officers to have sex on the job. So they can claim they had consensual sex on the job, but if they have you in custody they can’t claim they had consensual sex if you are in his custody. Now everything falls on what the definition of custody. And according to Terry v. Ohio, the definition of custody is either touched or submission to authority. And submission to authority is you simply stopped. If he walked up to you, you stopped. The first level of force in a force continuum is presence. You know how a lot of time how a police officer will come in and everybody will (looking around)…
36:52CN-That’s the first level of force. That is why a lot of people as soon as they see a police officer they are running. That can be considered custody. If he starts talking to you and you don’t feel like you can start walking away and you start having that conversation… so now a lot is gonna hinge on what custody is. What the legal definition is. (Supreme Court Case)
36:2CN-That’s the first level of force. That is why a lot of people as soon as they see a police officer they are running. That can be considered custody. If he starts talking to you and you don’t feel like you can start walking away and you start having that conversation… so now a lot is gonna hinge on what custody is. What the legal definition is. (Supreme Court Case).
So, now it’s gonna be an argument if he’s on duty and he goes and see his girlfriend at lunchtime and have sex then that’s misconduct.
TT-I Really want to do a march out in LaClair Courts. That’s the next project. And that’s why I want the news media to be there and put it on the news. When people see me……men. I had somebody contact me from Atlanta and was telling me this that and the other and I was like “Wow”. That’s the next one. I want to go to Springfield and march in front of the state capital, cause the statutes of limitation needs to change. ‘Ten years’- what’s ten years? Hell ten years after the
CN-You got to report it.
TT- So you only got three years?
CN- Three years to get
CL-I know we talked about this earlier but has their been any verification that the cops are looking for him?
TT- I did a line up about 2 weeks ago. I did a picture line up and I didn’t identify him 100%, but I did…See what they did though was a line up of him from back when he was young. See when I did Glover they showed how they looked now. THat’s why I was able to identify him. But with this officer Gary I only had a conversation with him for 15 minutes.
CL- When did you speak with Gary.
TT-August 2017. At the middle of August or whatever. We was in the vicinity of 92nd and St Lawrence.
CL-What would you tell victims of sexual assault on how to deal with this?
TT- The main thing is to tell somebody. Gots to tell somebody,. You can’t live out of fear. Fear keeps you stagnated. Fear had me stuck for 34 years. You have to tell someone if you can’t tell your family tell somebody tell an adult. If I would of known that I could go and tell the police back then you couldn’t tell the police something like that. You gotta be able to tell somebody. I don’t care if it’s a priest or a chief at a firehouse you gotta tell somebody.
CL-WHat do you think communities can do without relying on the system?
TT-They have to have organizations in the community that can help the youth. If youth have a program where they know there is somebody there that they know they can trust… IT will be groundbreaking.
CL- Do you think the same type of apparatus of nonprofits would help for kids and adults?
TT-Just like they got for people that are addicted to drugs they got AA, NA. See we need to have something called Kim’s Way. I wanted to start something like a group session where women can come and just talk about it. That’s what kept me so strong was that I talked about it. I have people who be like, “Yea, Kim that is all you used to talk about”. And I’m like ‘for real’? And they’re like, “yea girl”, and I wish those people would of did something.
of the 3 people, besides the others, my 1st cousin through our fathers. She wouldn’t of been able to do nothing because she was trying to get her life together as well. But that was my outlet when things would go bad I would run to her. The significant other is my twin brother’s girlfriend. The anonymous person is someone who works at the hospital I go at. My drug addiction counselor. One was a former co-worker who is case manager as well. If I wouldn’t had those people to talk to, for years, I don’t know what happens. When you leave something like that bottled inside it causes health issues it causes stress. I have a serious health issue now that is out of my control because of him. Because the rape. So it’s…if I can get together a group or rent out space just to have a meeting or group session there every week or every two weeks where we can sit and talk about it where we can have coffee and donuts. IF you don’t want to talk about it that day you might want to talk about it on others. Trauma and rape causes other mental anguish that people don’t know anything about. PTSD is exactly like it says. Post-traumatic stress disorder. Post means after, pre means before. So after this shit happens to your gonna have a stress disorder. I never realized how much it affected me cause working in social services kept me grounded. Now that I’m not in social services helping out people like me, now I’m the victim.